RADIO INTERVIEW WITH THE GEORGE-EDWARDS GROUP (interview in 2008)
"Who ARE these guys, anyway?"
THE GEORGE-EDWARDS GROUP
INTERVIEW WITH STEVE NEWTON
WCSB-Radio, Cleveland, Ohio.
Interview completed May 10, 2008
STEVE NEWTON, WCSB Radio: What were the origins of The George-Edwards Group? Was it originally a two-piece or full band? When/what year did you start up?
GEG: We grew out of a four piece Detroit-based band named "Andromeda," founded about 1967. We did live gigs in the late 60's throughout the Michigan area. We shared the stage with The Frost (Dick Wagner, later of Alice Cooper), the Rationals (with national hits of “Respect” and “I Need You”), Ted Nugent (the Amboy Dukes) and many other local artists.
The George Edwards Group name is simply a combination of Ray’s last name (George) and Ed’s first name (Edward) and Ed’s middle initial “S.” This was a coy way of making a two-man group sound like one person—for what purpose, who knows? The band’s correct full name is “The George-Edwards Group." This keeps us from getting confused with two other George Edwards, whom we found out about decades later: the world famous birding expert/artist and an individual recording artist, both gentlemen from Great Britain.
The first band name we thought up for our duo was actually The Sorrento Steel Band, which was the combination of the two street names on which we grew up in Detroit (only about five miles from the famous Motown studios, by the way). In fact, we met between Sorrento and Steel streets during a pick-up baseball game circa, 1961. Unfortunately, we never released anything under the Sorrento Steel name. (Too bad, in retrospect, it’s a better handle—oh, well!)
Both fascinated with tape recorders, we each had our own first battery-operated (!!) machines while still pre-teenagers. Eventually, we did some “sound on sound” recordings in the late 1960s (as introduced by Les Paul with Mary Ford in the 1950s) and than got much more serious when Ed became captivated with audio engineering and producing. Soon to follow was an array of studio gear, including sophisticated multi-tracking tape recorders, mics, processors, Moog synthesizers and other gear---all state of the art stuff at the time.
After a brief apprenticeship at Pioneer Recording in Detroit during 1972, Ed started Sine Wave Recording Studio in Detroit. By 1974, we had a true home-based studio with actually quite good recording facilities and instruments for the era.
In the late 1960s, Detroit was a hot-bed of hard rock with Bob Seger, Ted Nugent, the MC5, Joe Walsh, and near countless others. All that going on---not to mention, Barry Gordy’s Motown Records, in its prime!
Inside of this astoundingly rich musical environment, we quickly progressed. We became much more interested in creating original and unique songs and sounds, via the art of the recording studio, as opposed to playing cover version gigs for weekend money. Andromeda slowly faded away leaving no existing recordings behind. But by 1974, we had turned to a more serious style of all original music and were seriously laying down tracks. The 38:38 vinyl album was recorded during 1974 through 1976. It was copyrighted, manufactured and distributed in 1977.
STEVE NEWTON: What were the music tastes of the members of The George-Edwards Group? What were you listening to at the time? What else, other than music may have inspired the music of The George- Edwards Group?
GEG: Musically, we were, of course, listening to all kinds of stuff going on in Detroit at the time, but we were also influenced by the groups from the late 60's both British and American. The list is a familiar one: The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Cream, Jimi Hendrix Experience, Pink Floyd, The Who, The Animals, Traffic, Beach Boys, Doors, The DC5, The Mamas and the Papas, The Lovin’ Spoonful, the Yardbirds, and on and on---we’re sure we are forgetting to mention at least 150 other bands (laughs).
Of those above, our music was and is still today mostly influenced by the Beatles, The Who, Pink Floyd and Cream--to our own ears, anyway--and maybe not so much their actual music, but their musical CREATIVITY inspired us. But, transcending it all, the Beatles, with their producer George Martin and head engineer, Geoff Emerick, influenced us the most. Here’s why: We not only enjoyed Beatle music like millions of others, we actually “went to school” with every record the Beatles produced. We analyzed exactly what was going on within each cut. Vocals, chords, lyrics, leads, bass, drums, harmonies, rhythms, effects---you name it, we were seriously listening for it. Through these “wax lessons,” we learned to approach pop/rock music as a true art form, without boundaries. It amounted to a field-day for creativity and we loved it.
We learned about varied instrumentation, lyrical content, harmony, changing tempos, backwards effects and so on. But we didn’t want to just mimic all we heard—we wanted to craft our own sound, using all of our talents and the tools available.
Ed’s first introduction, at age five, was to classical music. Recordings of the music of Mozart, Beethoven and Tchaikovsky were all on his first hit parade listings. By age eight, Ed had written his first original song on clarinet. Ed’s uncle was a career violinist playing for Detroit, Atlanta and Buffalo Symphony Orchestras and provided strong musical influence and early support for Ed’s musical development.
Initially led by The Ventures, Elvis and Rick Nelson’s rock-a-billy as a young teen, Ed started with electric guitar, then moved into bass, synthesizers, piano and vocals. His specialties are in areas of composition, harmony, orchestration and production.
Ray had a rich family background in music as well as his two brothers, an uncle and his father were all musicians. Ray’s interest perked when he heard the very early 1960s Beatles 45, “Please, Please Me” emanating from his sister’s record player.
Early on, Ray’s interest turned toward unique sound effects and musical experimentation. As a musician, he started with trumpet, went to drums, then on to acoustic guitar, keyboards and singing. His specialties are in areas of composition, lyrics, vocals and unique rhythms.
STEVE NEWTON: According to a review in Acid Archives, it says that the 38:38 recordings date back as early as 1974. Were you aware of the space rock scene going on in Germany at the time? Did any of the experimental rock music from that era inspire The George-Edwards Group?
GEG: Yes, the 38:38 sessions were done during the period from 1974 through 1976 and were released in 1977. Strangely, we were not aware of the space rock scene in Germany, but we certainly were aware of so much other music around us!
By the mid-1970s, our influences were from the psychedelic and experimental sounds of Pink Floyd (pre-Dark Side of the Moon) and even 1960s groups such as the Blues Magoos. We also got into King Crimson, Vanilla Fudge and others. Also, the sophisticated productions coupled with the vocal arrangements and musicianship of the group Queen, were very strong influences on us. By the way, all these influences are still alive and well in our music of today.
All that said, early on we had done a lot of sound experimentation on our own through various means. Ray in particular had a keen interest in unusual sounds and effects. He had done a tape entitled Electric Sounds back in the 1960s.
Ray was constantly experimenting with sound effects, backwards loops, flanging/phasing and other sound experiments. Ed was constantly trying to figure out how to record it effectively and/or work it into a musical piece. Through all of these experiments, Ray had destroyed his fair share of tape machines while Ed had destroyed more than his fair share of microphones.
STEVE NEWTON: What was the music scene in Michigan like at the time?
GEG: The music scene in Michigan was great---maybe the greatest ever in ANY American City in history, and WE were the lucky beneficiaries! By the way, to this day, Detroit has never really gotten the recognition it deserved during that era of pop/rock.
As discussed a bit earlier, the 1960s was the golden age of Motown in Detroit. If that weren’t enough, the British Bands loved Detroit because it was such a great rock city and huge market, as the fifth largest city in the US at that time. Everyone came to town including the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Jethro Tull, Cream, Animals, Traffic, Hollies, Dave Clark Five, the Who, Yardbirds and many more.
From the West Coast scene, the Grateful Dead, Quicksilver Messenger Service, Jefferson Airplane, Janis Joplin, Hendrix, the Doors---you name them and they played Detroit over and over. And we saw them all, over and over!
We, together, even had the pleasure to see the Beatles live in 1965 for $5.50 (for the best seats in the house!). Simply put, Detroit was rock paradise!
STEVE NEWTON: Did The George-Edwards Group ever play out?
GEG: We evolved from the Detroit band, Andromeda and had played live gigs and opened for some prominent local groups, mentioned earlier. Some of these bands had huge national success later, of course. The George-Edwards Group however was strictly a recording studio band; although we love to play live any chance we get. In fact, we’re going to set up and play tomorrow in an LA warehouse!
STEVE NEWTON: Could you describe the vision behind The George-Edwards Group? What were you trying to express through your music?
GEG: This is a tough one to answer, but a great question. The best description might be that we were (and still are!) saying that music should be approached and listened to with extremely wide “horizons.” Music is our particular vehicle for creativity, taking that definition very, very broadly. We want our listeners to get in touch with themselves and feel something through our music. WHAT they feel is up to them! Whether a tune is poppy and commercial with a sing-along melody or is a freaked-out, psychedelic event with no time signature—if our music gives you a spark, we have succeeded!
STEVE NEWTON: Since the recordings of 38:38 were from 1974 through 1976, why was the album released posthumously the following year?
GEG: Our last recording sessions for that album were in December of 1976. After that, we spent a solid month or two just mixing the raw tracks into stereo. From the stereo master tape, we pretty much went straight into vinyl mastering and record manufacturing. Of course, those final manufacturing steps at the record pressing facility in Nashville took a bit of time too. By mid-1977, we had the pressed vinyl in our hot little hands.
STEVE NEWTON: How many copies of 38:38 were pressed?
GEG: The short answer: Not enough! A fair and simple question, but nobody seems to really have the answer. Our best guess is that less than 300 copies were ever produced. But that number could be even as low as 100. In any event, the vinyl version of this record today is extremely rare, to say the least. It is now selling at around $400 a copy; it was selling at $250 a copy two months ago. Of course, lower cost CD’s of all this music and more are now available through our website and at the reissue vinyl is available through www.DragCity.com
STEVE NEWTON: Was 38:38 released in a plain blank cover? What did the original album look like?
GEG: Yes, we did a Beatles’ “White Album” thing! There was a paper insert with song titles, timings, lyrics, instrument listings and some technical recording data. The record itself has a gray/silver label with black text. If you ever find an original at your local thrift store---buy it!
STEVE NEWTON: Did you sell 38:38 at local record stores? How was it distributed?
GEG: Looking for the typical label deal, Ed distributed about 50 copies or so to music publishers, producers and major labels. Ray personally peddled about ten copies up and down the streets of Sunset Boulevard in LA. That was about it.
Although our marketing efforts were next to nothing compared to today’s Internet environment, it appeared painfully clear that no one “big in the industry” was much interested in any of our music. Period. We just didn’t have the funds or energy to keep pushing the 38:38 album, since we had not received even a hint of interest in it. Added to that, by now we also were living over 2,000 miles apart as Ray had moved to LA while Ed stayed back in Motown.
Ed still has his “Reject City” three-ring binder containing all the record company reject form letters sent back to him from that era. In fact, we’re currently working on a new CD album, Reject City, with an autobiographical song of the same name.
STEVE NEWTON: Did you send copies of 38:38 to radio stations? Did you ever receive airplay?
GEG: Well, this is hard to say. While we do not remember sending any out specifically to radio stations, some copies, decades later, did eventually find their way to radio stations and onto the air waves. How much air time we’ve received over the years is anyone’s guess at this point--we have no idea. (We sure would like to collect any bona fide ASCAP fees, though!!!) We can tell you that we are getting more air play and web cast play today than we ever thought would happen!
STEVE NEWTON: Why was there never a follow-up release? Or was there a follow-up that no one really knows about?
GEG: Ah-ha! A very astute question that we hardly ever get! In fact, there was a follow-up 45 rpm vinyl record with a very poppy, up-tempo A-side “I See Your Smile” backed with the 38:38 ballad, “You Without Me.” These 45’s are also being sold at our website, but quantities are very limited on this as well. “I See Your Smile” is only available on this 45, it has never been released on any other album or cd to date.
Our new CD, 38:38, The Plus Edition, contains seven previously unreleased songs coupled with highest quality remixes of six of the original 38:38 cuts that have received the most airplay over the past year or two. The Plus Edition has had excellent reviews thus far—we are very happy with the combination of tunes presented on it. We went out of our way to maintain the original analog vibe and feel of the vinyl as we transferred to CD.
We should also add here that we still have over 70 songs, fully recorded and already painstakingly mastered personally by Ed, into both analog and digital stereo. These “new, old stock” masters are ready to go onto future CD’s---and we are still writing and recording pop music to this day. So, there is plenty of follow-up material, but almost none of it has been released to date. We are ready to respond, as the demand for our music continues.
STEVE NEWTON: How would you personally describe the music of The George-Edwards Group?
GEG: Our music is a very diverse mixture of so many musical forces—sort of analogous to our musical environment in our original home-base of Detroit in the late 1960’s, as described earlier.
On one tune you might hear hard driving vocals, guitars and drums; the next tune may have psychedelic matter floating all about; the next cut might have a punk rock feel, that followed by a pretty ballad laced with vocal harmonies and a symphonic arrangement behind it. In fact, all that and more is The George-Edwards Group of today. In the end, we’ll let our fans describe what they hear and feel. We love our fans and we’re happy to give them a spark in any way we can.
(Note: Ed also has The Silver Sky Orchestra in which he composes, performs and records music for use in movie soundtracks and TV. Please visit: www.TheSilverSkyOrcherstra.com)
STEVE NEWTON: Is this the first time the album is getting officially reissued? If so, then why now? Do you listen to much contemporary music? Do you ever hear parallels between The George-Edwards Group and the weird stuff coming out now?
GEG: Yes. Actually, we have a few products available right now. We have the original 38:38 The Vinyl Reissue CD, and 38:38 The Plus Edition CD. WE also have both CD’s available in a combination-pack. We have now made available the very last of the original vinyl record albums of 38:38 and the 45rpm single, “I See Your Smile,” described earlier. All the vinyl has become extremely rare, obviously.
In all honesty, we’re mostly too busy writing and recording to follow much of today’s music, so it’s hard to evaluate that scene as it may or may not relate to us. We’ve heard some nice writing here and there and the musicianship has never been better, generally speaking. Musically, we would like to always hear more experimentation and the broadest scope of different forms of music expression. Business-wise, even with the phenomenal marketing advances of the Internet, so much of what gets distributed and heard is still largely controlled by pitifully few corporations and "boxed-in” radio program directors, respectively.
You ask why has our music caught on now? We have lots of theories, but nothing conclusive. We think listeners may be responding to our songwriting and the diversity of our work. Perhaps we’re heard as a throw-back to the Golden Age of pop/rock in the 1950s into the late 60s.
As long as our listeners are getting that spark from us, we guess it may not matter as to “why now?” We get the feeling that we may never know the answer to that question!
Thanks for the interview, Steve, we really enjoyed talking with you!
Raymond George (Los Angeles, California)
Edward Balian (San Diego, California)
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